gethro

<en.wikipedia.org>
<abortionfacts.com>

Quote from abortionfacts.com:

"Since when does anyone’s right to live depend upon someone else wanting them?

"Every Child a Wanted Child" should be completed with "and if not wanted, kill!" for that is exactly what that Planned Parenthood slogan means. To thus complete the sentence removes the mask from this misleading slogan and reveals it for the monstrous evil that it is. That certainly makes it sound different!"

They certainly aren't pro-choice.

This assessment goes both ways, by the way. If I saw a study saying that "81% of parents don't value the life of a breathing person in a womb" I might ask some very pressing questions about this survey.

thanks @flarex. this is certainly helpful.

Also not being facetious: What's the source of this information? It's a survey? Was it based on respondent's medical information, or on their responses? Like any kind of polling, a good idea of the study's conclusiveness generally comes from the method and in the evaluation, for factors of deviation.

In general, I'm dubious about ANY report I see on deeply personal things like this - birth control, abortion, sex abuse, etc. (to say nothing of electoral polling) - if the data is based on a sample size.

Like, the "71% saying they did it because they didn't recognize they were pregnant or misjudged gestations." Can you see any reason why participants might respond in an ethically favorable way to this? It's certainly something that should be taken into consideration. I'm not disputing it. I'm being a skeptic...which is what I'm paid to do.

FYI on some stats, not trying to be facetious, but I'd like you to know a bit more about the subject.

1.4% of abortions are after 20 weeks (late-term) and of the women who did late-term, 71% surveyed of those 1.4% said they did it because they didn't recognize they were pregnant or misjudged gestations.

54% of abortions have had no previous abortions, 26% have had 1, 10% 2, and 6.7% >=3. Meaning 94% of abortions are limited to 1-2, meaning it is NOT used as an alternative to contraception, and meaning that frequent abortions is not a trend, and that the majority of abortions are not late-term, by the ratio of 98.6% to 1.4%.

Women in many cases are more emotional and sensitive than men. They believe that the baby inside them is their child, and abortion is a very serious, traumatic, and painful procedure, psychologically and emotionally. It's not a joke, and they don't enjoy doing it.

I will never understand the pro-life agenda, given these statistics. It's a religious farce.

@gethro How about this one? Following through with your assertion that you are both pro-choice and for unwanted pregnancy prevention, are you also for the FDA approving male birth control products that may have the side-effect of impotence? Also, are you for federal money being allocated for radical increases in research for new birth control methods for women, including medications and reversible surgical options? Are you also for introducing laws that would make the promotion of "abstinence-only" education with no teaching about birth control an offense that would merit fines? (May as well fund research with money from the people who are extremely opposed to it.) I know, this may seem a bit extreme, but given the options that currently available, I can definitely understand the logic of the few who consider abortion a primary form of birth control - don't condone it, but understand. Of course you could try convincing a woman with a family history of heart disease how wonderful it would be to radically increase her own chances of having a heart attack or stroke at an early age, since heart attacks, strokes, and death are "acceptable" side effects for the pill (in its various forms). But dead or disabled women are better than the slightest chance of causing one man to have "performance issues", right?

@brianr it happens <andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com>

@flarex you make an incredibly personal presumption...and call ME presumptuous?

I ascribe to the same justifications you yourself articulate: immorality and irresponsiblity. The frequency for which these justifications apply in "real world situations" is irrelevant so long that it applies at all. It doesn't matter how many people practice immoral and irresponsible behavior to justify regulation of it. Otherwise, how could any criminal law be justified?

To step out of reality and back into theory - because this issue is entirely theoretical - I'm more concerned with the debate rhetoric surrounding unwanted pregnancy than I am with the immorality of those who make a choice about it. I am, and remain, pro-choice. The conversation, however, needs to be less about abortion and more about prevention. This echos what @BarackObama has said, including in his victory speech on November 5. What I like about this issue is that it reveals a stubbornness in the most ardent pro-choice advocates who are unable to get past the "abortion" language of this debate. You, my friend, are guilty of this.

Who on "God's earth" would ever think that an abortion is a more reasonable form of birth control than contraception?

@gethro I think you're taking things to an extreme. I take it you've never had a female friend that's gone through an abortion. Most people who go through abortions don't really want to do them, and when they do they usually feel horrible. It's a very painful and traumatic experience.

I think it's presumptuous, arrogant, and insensitive to assume that people are using abortion as an alternate form of contraception in light of the trauma that people who do go through abortions do go through. Abortion is also a costly procedure, running upwards of I believe $400 or in the hundreds in terms of money, whereas contraception is free from family planning or you can buy it for much less than an abortion.

Of course there are some people who do have frequent abortions, and those people are being immoral and irresponsible, but I think your claims and justifications that you ascribe to your stand do not apply to very many real world situations.

@mrclassicalmusic, you are perhaps interpreting this question issue differently from I am. Do you believe abortions are a reasonable birth control alternative to contraception? Do you think couples should fore go the use of condoms b/c they know an abortion is available should they get pregnant?

Prohibiting abortions does not and cannot stop them. Trying to force women to bear children against their will, whether or not it would endanger their lives or health,and whether they would have the means to take decent care of those children invariably has catastrophic results for society. No government has ever been able to stop abortion by making it illegal,or even to enforce the law. And far more abortions occur in countries where it is illegal than where it is permitted.